Independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. told Tucker Carlson in an interview this week that Vice President Kamala Harris declined to meet with him, unlike former President Donald Trump, who agreed to a meeting.

“I reached out to her, and I reached out to a number of people, including some relatives of mine, who are very, very close to her personally and to the, in the Democratic Party,” Kennedy said.  “And they just said, ‘That’s a non-starter. There’s no way in the world she’s going to talk to you.’”

“And I said, ‘Okay, I’m not interested in that,’” Kennedy told Carlson.

When Carlson asked Kennedy why he thinks Harris refused to meet with him, Kennedy replied: “Maybe that same reason that [she] hasn’t given an interview.” As of Tuesday, Harris had gone nearly 40 days without engaging in an unscripted press conference to discuss policies she would pursue if she won the presidency.

Kennedy went on to say that some Democrats he knows are comfortable electing someone who “cannot give an interview” because they are “electing the apparatus” around Harris, rather than Harris herself.

“But the apparatus — I don’t have any faith in it. The apparatus are neo-cons like Antony Blinken, who are running us right up into World War III. And they are people who masterminded the censorship from inside the White House. That’s the apparatus that they want to reelect,” RFK Jr. said. “…These are the people who are censoring me. These are the people who tried to throw me out of the party, who canceled the primaries.”

Carlson responded by noting that “electing an apparatus is not how democracy works.”

“That’s an oligarchy — just a point of fact,” Carlson added. “…But she wouldn’t even talk to you. I think it’s very weird.”

“It’s weird, but I can’t stress it enough: not being able to give an interview? I mean, your whole life is in public life. That’s what you do,” Kennedy responded before pointing out that Trump constantly talks to reporters “who write crappy articles about him all the time.”

“One of the functions of a president is to explain to us why we should be proud of each other, and why we are part of a community, and why our country is great, and what our future is going to look like… and inspire all of us with that vision,” he added. “That is what a real leader does. How in the world can you do that if you cannot give an interview to a news [organization] or a friendly [news organization]. They can’t even do a setup interview in 40 days.”

When Bobby Kennedy endorsed Donald Trump last week, he burned his boats. There’s no turning back for him, or for American politics. Here’s his first interview since that happened.

Reports on Tuesday said that Harris and her running mate, Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz, finally have agreed to a sit-down interview with CNN’s Dana Bash. But those reports said the interview will not be live, which means CNN and Bash will be able to selectively edit Harris’s responses to make her sound more presidential than the “word salad” responses she is famous for.

That said, Trump announced that he and Harris have “reached an agreement” to debate on September 10. Trump said that “the rules will be the same as the last CNN debate, which seemed to work out well for everyone.”

According to a source with knowledge of the discussions, the rules will be similar to those that CNN used for its debate on June 27 between Trump and President Joe Biden—microphones will be turned off while the other candidate speaks, and there will be no studio audience, with both candidates standing.